It's getting to the point that tRad routes are becoming endangered species.When was the last time someone put up a trad 25 or 26 (or higher) in Qld.? Now that would be rad.
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wombby |
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It's getting to the point that tRad routes are becoming endangered species.When was the last time someone put up a trad 25 or 26 (or higher) in Qld.? Now that would be rad. |
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tecais |
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I was urged to comment but only have time for a few brief observations.
KP never sustained a leader's "ethic" and evolved according to the gear and culture. For example: 1950's Toproping and belay training for bushwalkers 1960's Onsight leads protected by pitons, with toproping to break into the higher grades. Still viewed as training for "real" crags 1970's Rather neglected with a hiatus to develop crack climbing at Frog 1980's Emergence of sparsely bolted routes I call "spad" - a hybrid serving neither sport nor trad well The climate, convenience and population density ensured KP would become the default outdoor climbing wall for a broad distribution of users with an equally broad distribution of styles. The current debate is a consequence, particularly since a rather casual approach evolved without any consensus guidance carrying over from these formative decades. No wonder we have the prevailing attitude "It's only KP, anything goes." Traditional gear placement and the mental discipline dealing with insecure and runout protection is a legitimate part of climbing. Those who wish to employ this style leading at the grade of their choice should have KP as a valid resource. Progress builds on the past to appreciate what was and is possible. Clearly appropriate stewardship is essential to preserve any natural resource in today's high impact, instant gratification culture. Otherwise, do what we did in the beginning - toprope. Simple enough. |
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manacubus |
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When was the last time someone put up a trad 25 or 26 (or higher) in Qld.? Now that would be rad.The Last Laugh 26, Redcliffs. 2003. Adam's recent freeing of Antichrist 28 is also very tRad, but has one or two fixed pieces. |
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TerryS |
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KP is doomed...............
The question is, how far before the plague spreads wide and far................. |
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hotgemini |
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TerryS wrote: Frog through the winter is busier than its ever been, tibro nearly looks like its been covered in climbing crazy string some weekends with people climbing
route old and new (last winter I heard of two occaisions of someone having to wait to lead carborundum chimney).
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devlin |
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before the year is out.
Oh yeah, I am hearing what your saying Mark all valid comments for sure. |
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belayersnightmare |
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Adam, compared to Terry, Hanrahan was an optimist
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ross ferguson |
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When was the last time someone put up a trad 25 or 26 (or higher) in Qld.? Now that would be
rad.
Find me the crag and I will gladly put up trad routes of all grades, (that I can climb .) Just find me the crag Wombby
Loads less effort than bolting.
Ross..
Last Edited By: ross ferguson
11/03/08 8:15 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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wombby |
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The Last Laugh 26, Redcliffs. 2003. Adam's recent freeing of Antichrist 28 is also very tRad, but has one or two fixed pieces.Good effort Lee, that I will applaud, especially at the Redcliffs, where the rock is less than stable. (Yes, you know me....I was thinking pure trad, I count 'The Antichrist' free route as 'mixed', even tho we're only talking what? 2-3 bolts in over 100m. Not to mitigate Adam's accompishment there, a very bold route and an effort I applaud as well.) Find me the crag and I will gladly put up trad routes of all grades, (that I can climbWhat about the cliffs at Lutwiche? Or on Adelaide St.?
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wombby |
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Just following up on the carrot to RB post:
My thoughts along this line would be to preserve as a bare minimum 1-2 carrot routes at KP, ideally 3-4 covering the low to mid teens. Mantilt was carroted by Ross and is a very good beginner lead at gr.10. Even if bolt plates do rattle off on this one, there are ledges all along it and it's not that high at 10m or so. Crap at 14 is another that has lots of ledges to recover on if one is caught with ones pants down (rope down). Wounded Knee at 18 is another nice lead, really only a 17, but again good ledges between the hard moves and then gear at the top. Wind In The Willows - don't know re this one, I'm a bit divided. It could get very nasty if that first carrot unclipped and the leader came off at that crux, which has happened more than once. FOBS - a very nice test piece at 20, perhaps more like 19? Could be worth preserving in its present state for people leading harder? Chubba Chips Mods - if the FA gives his permission, go for it, same goes for the run-out test pieces in the middle section of cliff, even if we retain the current bolt placements to replace them with RBs. I'm thinking here of Insomnia with its 3 bolts and those with only 2 BRs: Street Ruffians & Dirty Situations = decking out if the last bolt unclips. Dolomite Dreaming and The Rasp/Exterminator are two that might receive a lot more traffic from the hard men if they were modernly equipped?
Last Edited By: wombby
13/03/08 1:51 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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wombby |
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OK Adam, just to let you know, got some first class pitch from La Brea in California and some fine eider from local sources.
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wombby |
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Damn, obviously he's not biting.....
Was down there today & did a repeat of Breakfast At Tiffany's. I put a chalk dot on the cave where a bolt would be ideal, can you let me know when you've got a mo? I'd like to see how it's done. As mentioned previously, I'm more than willing to make some sort of donation for your time and materials.
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devlin |
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The force is strong with this one. He will be on the dark side in no time.
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hotgemini |
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Mark: From the description in the guide, it read a lot like Neil Monteith's route and BAT share the same line in getting out of that cave, I'd prefer
to check with Neil as to the line his route took before I go putting any bolts in. That said, if it is seperate climbing then I'd be happy to help you put
it in, but I've got a few other things I need to get out of the way first, but I'll let you know.
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JohnMc |
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Thanks to the guys who bolted this climb. It makes a nice warm-up in the morning and adds another climb to a sometimes crowded crag.
Am a bit curious how hotgemini took the photo with the trad gear next to the bolts. I had read somewhere, once the bolts went in, it was impossible to climb the route placing gear. |
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manacubus |
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Was down there today & did a repeat of Breakfast At Tiffany'sAm I missing something? What is this route? |
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Gremlin |
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A terrible new trad route Mark put up down near Pass the Bosch about a week or two ago...
Crap start with crap gear which eases into a jugfest with even crappier gear... Named after a subway cookie i found in an overhang near the top :P |
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manacubus |
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Riiight. Sounds great.
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wombby |
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From the description in the guide, it read a lot like Neil Monteith's route and BAT share the same line in getting out of that cave, I'd prefer to check with Neil as to the line his route took before I go putting any bolts in.Don't know what guide you're using Adam, what on earth is "BAT"? Nowhere near "Nightfell" or "Burning Fragment" that much is clear. I'm more than happy to leave it bold. Actually I can blame Gremlin - he recommended I leave it bold....
A terrible new trad route Mark put up down near Pass the BoschYou're just jealous that you didn't spot it... it should have 37 * (one * for each piece of dodgy gear)
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wombby |
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Am a bit curious how hotgemini took the photo with the trad gear next to the bolts. I had read somewhere, once the bolts went in, it was impossible to climb the route placing gear.Where can one read this John? I lead it with Adam shortly after he'd bolted it, he took the photo while I was setting up at the top. It's all good, tho there is a slight deviation at the start, where you step L onto the big ledge for gear, then back out right, whereas the sport variant goes straight up the slab, thus the grade difference of 14 (trad) and 16 (sport). Take a look at the photo I posted on p2 (with the dots indicating RB positions), this, along with the rope should give one a good indication of where the routes vary. Hope this helps people sort out the difference. Cheers Mark
Last Edited By: wombby
11/04/08 5:36 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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