Neil: the guy is soloing at the most busy time of day - because thats the only time he can get to the cliff and climb!Are there people with 9-5 jobs for whom soloing is so routine that those convenience issues matter? I'd have thought not, but I'm impressed if there are.
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Free solo at KP
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
 thisrod |
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Kleman Becan
8 years
(27/07/07 9:40 AM) |
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Neil Monteith |
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Eduard Marin 1 year
(27/07/07 9:55 AM) Mr Enthusiasm
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Yes! Soloing is a very effiienct way of doing a lot of climbing quickly if you are time poor. No down time with sitting around holding those pesky ropes.
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ross ferguson |
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Eduard Marin 5 years
(27/07/07 10:00 AM) |
Thisrod Said. "Say you heard that a soloist had fallen off KP, landed next to me."
I didn't hear about this happening, it did happen to me. 
It took a long time to get over but now I realise that %##* will happen in life.Stuff you don't want to happen. If you want to live in a soft fuzzy warm environment then lock your doors grab your blanket and sit in your bean bag, turn on the TV and watch reruns of Friends. Ross.. 
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doug scown |
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Tomáš Mrázek 3 years
(27/07/07 10:30 AM) |
One issue of rock and ice had a letter from an irrate guy slagging off about 'irresponsible' etc etc soloists. the next issue had an obituary about
the same guy who'd died roped ('safe and sensible' )climbing. Ironic.
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kcwat |
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3 years
(27/07/07 10:33 AM) |
I find it difficult to reconcile how tolerance and acceptance can demand anything, somewhat of an oxymoron I would think.
As stated, soloing provides a great opportunity to climb a lot of routes quickly with minimal fuss for those bound by the 9 to 5 desk slog. Some people like to top rope, others like to lead or aid or solo. Would you accept that leading is more dangerous than top roping (if set up properly)? If yes, would it be appropriate for a top rope afficionado to criticise a leader at KP for risking a 'PR nightmare to the climbing community'? Or suggest to the leader that they should only lead at other crags because of perceptions of the public? Rod: So would self-responsibility I believe anyone solo-ing is doing just that…ie. Being self responsible Rod: You wouldn't do that unless you wanted an audience. That may be your take on it Rod, but I am not sure that it can be projected as a general rule. quote....bear a joint responsibilty for our co-existance Exactly….we need to co-exist, including soloists. A roped climber falling, either lead or top roping, witnessed by non-climbers could result in crag closures. Should all climbing be banned at KP for this fear? quote .... and I'd kept on chatting to my friends while he bled to an avoidable death. Would you think any less of me? Not sure what you are getting at. Please explain??? But if you mean what I think you mean, yes probably I would think less of somebody who was selective about helping a dieing man or woman. Similarly, if someone fell and was injured while roped climbing and others stood around and did not offer to help, I would think less of them. Do we leave a dieing man on the side of the road because he does not share our race or creed? Further, would you leave a man to die because he did not share your climbing ethic? Sorry to hear of your experience Ross. KC |
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thisrod |
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Kleman Becan
8 years
(27/07/07 11:45 AM) |
kcwat: would it be appropriate for a top rope afficionado to criticise a leader at KPYes, if the leader was tempting consequences that the toproper would be obliged to deal with, and didn't want to. This is rarely the case: most lead teams can manage their own bruises and broken ankles. OK, it's less rare at KP than elsewhere. probably I would think less of somebody who was selective about helping a dieing man or womanThe point is that freedom cuts both ways. If one person's choice to solo is beyond criticism, then so is another's choice not to help them if they fall. That's a consistent position, though a monstrous one for most Australians. If you don't take that position, then in your eyes the soloist is imposing responsibilities on bystanders, which gives them grounds to reject his behavior. People are not obliged to accept your behavior unless you take responsibility for dealing with the consequences yourself. You can do that by being bold when bystanders aren't around. |
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Adam Donoghue |
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(27/07/07 11:48 AM) Tassie Devil
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I don't usually get into these types of discussions but here's my 2 cents worth.
I don't buy the milage argument- climbing gyms are for this and you'll get far fitter there than doing stuff at KP well below your limit. The main thing that concerns me is the simple fact that if the soloist falls he can take out someone below (much more likely when KP is busy). This alone makes me convinced that its not acceptable to solo at any crag when its busy below. Its not concidering other peoples lives which I find unacceptable. Adam |
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kcwat |
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3 years
(27/07/07 1:04 PM) |
One can think less of a certain action but still tolerate it. "I may not share your opinion, but I will defend your right to have that opinion' The solo-ist is not imposing responsibilities until he/she falls which by nature of the activity is not the intention. People are not obliged to accept others behaviours (we don't have a bill of rights in this country) true, but they should be encouraged to be more tolerant and to explore what motivates someone rather than simply criticise. information leads to knowledge which leads to understanding which leads to wisdom. |
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thisrod |
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Kleman Becan
8 years
(27/07/07 3:04 PM) |
One can think less of a certain action but still tolerate it.No one has called for soloing at KP to be banned. But doing it at busy times is unacceptably selfish. People who see the soloist doing it then will suspect he's showing off, and likely to get hurt, regardless of his actual motivation. The anxiety this causes for everyone else outweighs the convenience of soloing whenever and wherever you want. It wouldn't have been such a problem when everyone at KP knew everyone else. Things are different now. |
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wombby |
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Lunchbox legend 2 years
(27/07/07 7:07 PM) |
My objections to doing this at KP at this time of the day: 1) As Adam pointed out: KP is pretty busy on any weekday evening, and a fall would not only likely include some unsuspecting boulderer, but perhaps another
climber.
Last Edited By: wombby
27/07/07 7:49 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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manacubus |
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(27/07/07 7:20 PM) Shhh! |
A lot of well thought out arguments on this thread. I found my opinion swinging back and forth as I read. Nice work guys and gals.
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TerryS |
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Ethan Pringle
4 years
(27/07/07 11:01 PM) |
Soloing is total self-indulgence. It should be respected that people are doing this for their own reasons, but I do agree that doing so at a very public crag
during rush hour is not the best thing and can only be seen as 'wanting to show off'. A bit like masturbating in public, really......... Now, if you
want to do it, have a ball, enjoy yourself and really, you're not doing anything wrong, but choose to do it in front of unconsenting others, then don't
expect a good response.
....you might be arrested even............
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jjobrien |
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Patxi Usobiaga 6 years
(29/07/07 5:20 PM) Mr Kneebar |
Freedom for all.
Climb hard - and wear something nice.
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duncan steel |
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Jamb junkie 8 years
(30/07/07 7:41 AM) |
While everynone has the freedom to choose what they want to do and when, within the law of cause. If I was into Soloing it would not be at KP with a crowd of
people under me. 20 years ago I was at Araps and Peter Croft was there, he did a lot of Soloing. He quietly went about what he wanted to do without endangering
anyone else. On of the nicest guys I have met.
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mattrix |
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Kleman Becan
2 years
(30/07/07 10:39 AM) |
Is throwing rocks at these guys PC? I mean, what's the accepted ethic?
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olafben |
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Lunchbox legend 1 year
(30/07/07 5:33 PM) |
Whats the difference between soloing and climbing to the first bolt? not much at a lot of KP climbs.
Also some climbs rely on RP placements etc in rock not exactly suitable for placing RP's so therefore its probably more dangerous messing with the gear than just soloing it. A lot of the climbs are bolted/protected in a fashion which doesn't provide that much protection due to the less than vertical nature of the crag. The trouble with soloing in the wilderness is that if you were to climb on your own there isn't anybody to call for help. Those soloing at busy crags can rely on someone calling the paramedics pretty #$#! swiftly, no need for buddies or belay partners. It also mirrors the ethic of the first ascensionists. Perhaps if a few more people were to solo at KP, certain members of the climbing world wouldn't get quite as upset about retrobolting of climbs to a more modern style. I mean if you really want to challenge yourself it is the biggest head game isn't it. In larger climbing areas (Squamish, etc) there are solo scenes, nearly always at the busy local crags. Nobody seems to fall off. The only recorded climbing deaths at Squamish in particular have been ground falls while placing pro. Not soloing, and there are groups of these guys just doing laps on Burgers and Fries (local top rope crag). I guess the risk must seem obvious somehow! Just some fuel for the fire. |
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catch22 |
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(31/07/07 1:47 PM) |
oh i already did the retrobolting debate back in 2004. it was a fun thread actually, 8 pages or so....
actually now i'm back from overseas i see heaps of climbs at KP are ring bolted quite well, so obviously i won and all those old dinosaurs on here changed their minds about new bolts!! 
muwhahaha 
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phil box |
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Patxi Usobiaga 9 years
(31/07/07 2:14 PM) Dr Phool |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwCyM84HCcA&mode=user&search=
End of discussion, yeah. Link to vid of a 150 years history of Russian free soloing Stolby style. I wish I was born there.
...Phil...
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Trent |
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Tomáš Mrázek 5 years
(31/07/07 3:18 PM) |
Wow, this is what Bert Salmon was all about. This is real climbing.
This reminds me of my home town near Cairns. The locals used to do a lot of crazy things near the swimming holes. As a kid you were slowly 'introduced' to the various jumps, rock slides, tree swings, solos etc. The tourists would watch and try to join in. Usually one would die every year, trying to copy the locals. This eventually lead to the closure of one of the best swimming holes in Australia. What I'm trying to say is... I forget. But the point is... I forget that, too. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about. He used to drive that blue car? Trent
Last Edited By: Trent
31/07/07 3:22 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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phil box |
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Patxi Usobiaga 9 years
(01/08/07 7:20 AM) Dr Phool |
Bwahahahaha, best post this month Trent, gold mate, gold. I'm lovin it.
...Phil...
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